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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.20 02:15:00 -
[1]
Lifewire is correct. Its about time the empires started taking more notice of people murduring their citizens. We should make a petition.
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.20 02:15:00 -
[2]
Lifewire is correct. Its about time the empires started taking more notice of people murduring their citizens. We should make a petition.
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.20 04:52:00 -
[3]
Is there a particular reason why you think you should be able to mass murder people in 0.0 and not have consequences?
I don't mind that you mass murder people, but I do mind that I have to go and spend days on end killing boring ass NPCS because I killed somebody in .1+ while you guys own 0.0, can freely kill in .1+ (because you own the faction NPCS in 0.0) and can freely enter 5+ with no problems.
And you get all these benefits while your killing 100x the number of ships I'm killing and most probably podding just for the fun of it (I can pod 1 person then I have to spend 1 week npc killing).
The difference between 0.0 and 0.1 is quite absurd.
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.20 04:52:00 -
[4]
Is there a particular reason why you think you should be able to mass murder people in 0.0 and not have consequences?
I don't mind that you mass murder people, but I do mind that I have to go and spend days on end killing boring ass NPCS because I killed somebody in .1+ while you guys own 0.0, can freely kill in .1+ (because you own the faction NPCS in 0.0) and can freely enter 5+ with no problems.
And you get all these benefits while your killing 100x the number of ships I'm killing and most probably podding just for the fun of it (I can pod 1 person then I have to spend 1 week npc killing).
The difference between 0.0 and 0.1 is quite absurd.
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.20 06:51:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Harry Voyager
Enacting security hits for combat in 0.0 space would destroy alliances over night. Harry Voyager
Errr how exactly? It would just mean you would have to pod people less. And you would have to do what we non alliance people do and kill NPCS for many boring pointless hours to get your sec status up. Don't like that? Well neither do I but I'm still forced to do it.
Heck, you don't even have to worry about some big alliance blockade when you go off to chain the NPC BS. Destroy alliances my arse.
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.20 06:51:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Harry Voyager
Enacting security hits for combat in 0.0 space would destroy alliances over night. Harry Voyager
Errr how exactly? It would just mean you would have to pod people less. And you would have to do what we non alliance people do and kill NPCS for many boring pointless hours to get your sec status up. Don't like that? Well neither do I but I'm still forced to do it.
Heck, you don't even have to worry about some big alliance blockade when you go off to chain the NPC BS. Destroy alliances my arse.
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.20 11:45:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tamur
Edited by: Tamur on 20/10/2004 11:38:11
What on earth are you going on about?? Owning NPC faction ships?? That is really quite a load of poo!
Its simple really! 0.1 has more security than 0.0 - if you gank in 0.1 you get a sec hit. If you gank in 0.0 you don't!
No its not silly at all. The only real way to increase your faction is to kill BS npcs which only really exist in any quantity in 0.0 space which is invariably claimed by an alliance. If alliances didn't believe they owned the faction ships then they wouldn't ask for payment to kill those same faction ships or more often try to kill the people trying to get to the faction ships to improve their faction 
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.20 11:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tamur
Edited by: Tamur on 20/10/2004 11:38:11
What on earth are you going on about?? Owning NPC faction ships?? That is really quite a load of poo!
Its simple really! 0.1 has more security than 0.0 - if you gank in 0.1 you get a sec hit. If you gank in 0.0 you don't!
No its not silly at all. The only real way to increase your faction is to kill BS npcs which only really exist in any quantity in 0.0 space which is invariably claimed by an alliance. If alliances didn't believe they owned the faction ships then they wouldn't ask for payment to kill those same faction ships or more often try to kill the people trying to get to the faction ships to improve their faction
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.21 06:22:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Avon
Ohnoes, time to carebear 0.0
The whole point is the make the game less carebear. Currently you can gank safely in your alliance territory and then go and be completely protected in empire space with Mummy Concorde. With a change to sec status you would be outlaws for the typical extremely hostile behaviour that alliance members exhibit and the game would be much harder (less carebear), not easier (more carebear).
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.21 06:22:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Avon
Ohnoes, time to carebear 0.0
The whole point is the make the game less carebear. Currently you can gank safely in your alliance territory and then go and be completely protected in empire space with Mummy Concorde. With a change to sec status you would be outlaws for the typical extremely hostile behaviour that alliance members exhibit and the game would be much harder (less carebear), not easier (more carebear).
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.23 04:38:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Archbishop
What a thread. For the sake of honor in a fight it would at least be nice of the "Gankers" to only kill people in similar ships. I mean a BS attacking a frig is kind of lame. If a "ganker" is such a "real man" let him gank in a cruiser or a frigate himself. Give the victim a chance at least. Then again if the "ganker" isn't a real man and just gets off blowing up people I guess thats just that. But if they're so into PvP (like they claim) I'd think they'd want a real challenge not a helpless victim.
I do agree its far to easy to raise a security level back up. If someone is going to live as a "ganker" they need to take the security hit for it and it needs to remain that way. Eve was supposed to be a game of consequences yet the system in place doesn't seem to promote that.
Just my opinion.
Archbishop
What in gods name? Its far too easy to raise security level? /Boggle
As for the ships thing, there is nothing wrong with people killing your shuttle, frig, pod at all because these things you can plan against and you expect to happen when you go into 0.0 space.
What is wrong is simply what has already been hashed over countless times and that is the very stupid idea that murdering people would not affect your security level once you went back to empire space.
That is stupid and no matter how many times its refuted by worried alliance members, it will remain a stupid aspect of the game.
IMO the chances of CCP changing this is about..... ZERO anyway so the point is really moot.
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.23 04:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Archbishop
What a thread. For the sake of honor in a fight it would at least be nice of the "Gankers" to only kill people in similar ships. I mean a BS attacking a frig is kind of lame. If a "ganker" is such a "real man" let him gank in a cruiser or a frigate himself. Give the victim a chance at least. Then again if the "ganker" isn't a real man and just gets off blowing up people I guess thats just that. But if they're so into PvP (like they claim) I'd think they'd want a real challenge not a helpless victim.
I do agree its far to easy to raise a security level back up. If someone is going to live as a "ganker" they need to take the security hit for it and it needs to remain that way. Eve was supposed to be a game of consequences yet the system in place doesn't seem to promote that.
Just my opinion.
Archbishop
What in gods name? Its far too easy to raise security level? /Boggle
As for the ships thing, there is nothing wrong with people killing your shuttle, frig, pod at all because these things you can plan against and you expect to happen when you go into 0.0 space.
What is wrong is simply what has already been hashed over countless times and that is the very stupid idea that murdering people would not affect your security level once you went back to empire space.
That is stupid and no matter how many times its refuted by worried alliance members, it will remain a stupid aspect of the game.
IMO the chances of CCP changing this is about..... ZERO anyway so the point is really moot.
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.24 00:37:00 -
[13]
I think people are getting a little confused between the definition of 'Lawless' and 'Consequences'. These are two very different things. There may be no immediate consequences in committing a crime in a lawless place but if you returned to a lawful place and had committed crimes against the people of that lawful place then you would most certainly be held accountable. This is how it works in RL and I have no doubt would work in any other civilized, lawful society.
Another thing I have noticed is people tend to believe that being an alliance member in 0.0 is dangerous and thus benefits are conferred to offset the harshness of alliance life. I don't believe this is so. In comparison to being a small corporation member or a soloing pilot, the alliance person has a very easy time of things. In terms of difficulty, I would rate from easiest to most difficult.
Carebear Miner / Production / Missioner (Easiest)
Alliance Member in 0.0
Large Corps not in Alliance
Missioner who enters .4 or less for missions
Pirate in 0.0
Small Corps
Freelancers (Hardest)
Yet strangely the people who most benefit and who are most catered to are in the reverse order in game.
Alliance Member in 0.0 (Most Catered To)
Carebear Miner / Production / Missioner
Large Corps not in Alliance
Missioner who enters .4 or less for missions
Pirate in 0.0
Small Corps
Freelancers (Least Catered To)
So the people with the easiest gameplay styles, get the most benefits from CCP and so are generally the most numerous groups. Its no wonder that they or their representatives are in this thread trying to preserve or defend these benefits.
You could say 'Well join an alliance and stop whining' but I think many of the people commenting on this thread in favour of sec hits are probably like me, they prefer to play the game on the 'Difficult' setting rather then the 'Easy'one and probably really don't care much either way regarding changes to 0.0 gameplay.
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.24 00:37:00 -
[14]
I think people are getting a little confused between the definition of 'Lawless' and 'Consequences'. These are two very different things. There may be no immediate consequences in committing a crime in a lawless place but if you returned to a lawful place and had committed crimes against the people of that lawful place then you would most certainly be held accountable. This is how it works in RL and I have no doubt would work in any other civilized, lawful society.
Another thing I have noticed is people tend to believe that being an alliance member in 0.0 is dangerous and thus benefits are conferred to offset the harshness of alliance life. I don't believe this is so. In comparison to being a small corporation member or a soloing pilot, the alliance person has a very easy time of things. In terms of difficulty, I would rate from easiest to most difficult.
Carebear Miner / Production / Missioner (Easiest)
Alliance Member in 0.0
Large Corps not in Alliance
Missioner who enters .4 or less for missions
Pirate in 0.0
Small Corps
Freelancers (Hardest)
Yet strangely the people who most benefit and who are most catered to are in the reverse order in game.
Alliance Member in 0.0 (Most Catered To)
Carebear Miner / Production / Missioner
Large Corps not in Alliance
Missioner who enters .4 or less for missions
Pirate in 0.0
Small Corps
Freelancers (Least Catered To)
So the people with the easiest gameplay styles, get the most benefits from CCP and so are generally the most numerous groups. Its no wonder that they or their representatives are in this thread trying to preserve or defend these benefits.
You could say 'Well join an alliance and stop whining' but I think many of the people commenting on this thread in favour of sec hits are probably like me, they prefer to play the game on the 'Difficult' setting rather then the 'Easy'one and probably really don't care much either way regarding changes to 0.0 gameplay.
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.25 00:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Qayos
Edited by: Qayos on 25/10/2004 00:13:10
Edited by: Qayos on 25/10/2004 00:09:44
Einheriar Ulrich - so you want a place that is RP free is what you are saying. 0.0 space is not supposed to be RP free zone where no RP exists and RP consequences do not extend their influence. It is a place without active control by the empires, that does not mean whatever you do there has no RP consequences such as not being liked by the empire whose citizens you murder and rob.
.
I believe thats exactly what he wants. A RP free, ganking 0.0 where he can sit with his VotF friends and alliance members at a chokepoint and kill everything that warps in with zero risk. Its a very unimaginative and FPS style of play but still a valid one.
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.25 00:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Qayos
Edited by: Qayos on 25/10/2004 00:13:10
Edited by: Qayos on 25/10/2004 00:09:44
Einheriar Ulrich - so you want a place that is RP free is what you are saying. 0.0 space is not supposed to be RP free zone where no RP exists and RP consequences do not extend their influence. It is a place without active control by the empires, that does not mean whatever you do there has no RP consequences such as not being liked by the empire whose citizens you murder and rob.
.
I believe thats exactly what he wants. A RP free, ganking 0.0 where he can sit with his VotF friends and alliance members at a chokepoint and kill everything that warps in with zero risk. Its a very unimaginative and FPS style of play but still a valid one.
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.25 08:14:00 -
[17]
Good post book. I entirely agree.
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.25 08:14:00 -
[18]
Good post book. I entirely agree.
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.26 00:14:00 -
[19]
I have no problem with alliances podding people in 0.0 or blowing up frigs in battleships or whatever. In fact I recently podkilled somebody who I knew was afk just for kicks. I scam and metagame like its going out of fashion. I have the moral fortitude of a turd.
The problem I have with no sec hits in 0.0 is that when an alliance member gets tired of random killing at a chokepoint somewhere, they can come back to empire and relax in complete safety while if I do the same thing in 0.4 to 0.1 I get blown to little pieces by concorde after 5 or so kills. Thats infinite kills in 0.0 vs 5 or 6 kills in 0.1 and then your screwed. Its bull****.
They can mass murder and then fly back to empire and park their big fat Apoc in a 1.0 roid belt right next to the newbs and carebears they prey on. And the newbs and carebears cant do zip.
If I can't do it I don't want other people to do it either. I'm jealous and rightly so.
People like Enherier make comments about us wanting Eve to become 'Carebearish' but the reality is his desire to have consequences free PvP is the true cry for carebearism. He wants to be able to come back to Empire and be a carebear when he feels the need. Otherwise why would he disagree with sec hits? They don't harm him in 0.0 where he claims to live and fight.
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.26 00:14:00 -
[20]
I have no problem with alliances podding people in 0.0 or blowing up frigs in battleships or whatever. In fact I recently podkilled somebody who I knew was afk just for kicks. I scam and metagame like its going out of fashion. I have the moral fortitude of a turd.
The problem I have with no sec hits in 0.0 is that when an alliance member gets tired of random killing at a chokepoint somewhere, they can come back to empire and relax in complete safety while if I do the same thing in 0.4 to 0.1 I get blown to little pieces by concorde after 5 or so kills. Thats infinite kills in 0.0 vs 5 or 6 kills in 0.1 and then your screwed. Its bull****.
They can mass murder and then fly back to empire and park their big fat Apoc in a 1.0 roid belt right next to the newbs and carebears they prey on. And the newbs and carebears cant do zip.
If I can't do it I don't want other people to do it either. I'm jealous and rightly so.
People like Enherier make comments about us wanting Eve to become 'Carebearish' but the reality is his desire to have consequences free PvP is the true cry for carebearism. He wants to be able to come back to Empire and be a carebear when he feels the need. Otherwise why would he disagree with sec hits? They don't harm him in 0.0 where he claims to live and fight.
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.26 11:39:00 -
[21]
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
Yeah. Watching alliance people who probably kill more random noobs then you do slip into empire and out of your reach is really annoying.
Stop trying to get the game changed to punish those 0.0 based PVPers so you have an easier time of catching them. Your RP arguements are just weak, and have enough holes in them to fly a few battleships though.
Trying to get the game mechanics changed to benefit your profession makes you a Carebear, I dont care if youre a pirate, miner, or if you self-destruct abandoned shuttles for insurance money. The last thing EVE needs is a bigger role for the absurd instaganking NPCs.
Yeah we should never suggest any improvements or voice any opinion about how the game is flawed or could be made better because we might be labeled carebears. Everyone repeat after RollinDuckMaster - The game is perfect, The game is perfect, The game is perfect....
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.26 11:39:00 -
[22]
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
Yeah. Watching alliance people who probably kill more random noobs then you do slip into empire and out of your reach is really annoying.
Stop trying to get the game changed to punish those 0.0 based PVPers so you have an easier time of catching them. Your RP arguements are just weak, and have enough holes in them to fly a few battleships though.
Trying to get the game mechanics changed to benefit your profession makes you a Carebear, I dont care if youre a pirate, miner, or if you self-destruct abandoned shuttles for insurance money. The last thing EVE needs is a bigger role for the absurd instaganking NPCs.
Yeah we should never suggest any improvements or voice any opinion about how the game is flawed or could be made better because we might be labeled carebears. Everyone repeat after RollinDuckMaster - The game is perfect, The game is perfect, The game is perfect....
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.27 15:09:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 27/10/2004 14:55:22
Originally by: Lifewire
But back to topic: I want to pirate in EVE. Where? In 0.0 it¦s no crime, in empire CCP dont want us to pirate and it¦s no challange too. Second important question: why do alliances fear sec. hits? Because they pirate? Do alliances kill randomly any intruder? If yes: you guys should get sec. hits.
I think what he means is that he can't cut it in 0.1-0.4, but still wants to look ebil.
He wants the sec hits of Empire piracy, but without the risks/ hardwork/ boredom/ frustration.
Let me clue you in. If you are ebil your reputation will preceed you. If you rely on people seeing your sec rating to judge you, you haven't made it yet.
If you don't like piracy in 0.0 as it is, tough. There is no reason to change the system just to satisfy YOUR playstyle.
Heh. I think he means the exact opposite to your interpretation. As can be seen clearly if you read his post. He wants more risk, and sec hits as well to properly separate his pirate group and pirate activities from the casual alliance ganker who just wants a risk free hour of chokepoint camping before heading back to empire to gorge on scordite roids.
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.27 15:09:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 27/10/2004 14:55:22
Originally by: Lifewire
But back to topic: I want to pirate in EVE. Where? In 0.0 it¦s no crime, in empire CCP dont want us to pirate and it¦s no challange too. Second important question: why do alliances fear sec. hits? Because they pirate? Do alliances kill randomly any intruder? If yes: you guys should get sec. hits.
I think what he means is that he can't cut it in 0.1-0.4, but still wants to look ebil.
He wants the sec hits of Empire piracy, but without the risks/ hardwork/ boredom/ frustration.
Let me clue you in. If you are ebil your reputation will preceed you. If you rely on people seeing your sec rating to judge you, you haven't made it yet.
If you don't like piracy in 0.0 as it is, tough. There is no reason to change the system just to satisfy YOUR playstyle.
Heh. I think he means the exact opposite to your interpretation. As can be seen clearly if you read his post. He wants more risk, and sec hits as well to properly separate his pirate group and pirate activities from the casual alliance ganker who just wants a risk free hour of chokepoint camping before heading back to empire to gorge on scordite roids.
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.28 01:16:00 -
[25]
So we need sec hits in 0.0 and more entry points into 0.0. Sounds good to me 
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.28 01:16:00 -
[26]
So we need sec hits in 0.0 and more entry points into 0.0. Sounds good to me
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.28 02:44:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Lorth
Originally by: Nyxus
There are a LOT of people in Empire (young players) who want to go and fight and live in 0.0 but when you HAVE to go through one of like 10 chokepoints to get anywhere in the ENTIRE 0.0 galaxy, and EVERY one of those chokepoints is camped by either gankers or alliance gankers (get the hell out of our territory) what can you do? There is no middle ground for us to "grow up" in.
So you want, it to be easier to get into 0.0?
You also want it to be easier to get out of 0.0?
You also want it to be easier to survive in 0.0?
You also want it to be cheaper to be in 0.0?
You also want it to be possible with a week old char?
You also want more stations in 0.0?
You also want to be on par with the older players?
If I had read that post right, in short you want to travelle through 0.0 with no troubles, have no interuptions while you are there, make lots of isk, get out safely, do it with no isk invested, with harly any skill points!?!?!
Would you like a free battle ship and 1 bill isk cause that really what your asking for. Its a challange. Its what makes the game fun.
Thats exactly what he wants Lorth and rightly so. He wants to be able to get into 0.0 and get out of 0.0 having accomplished something useful and with his reward for the great risk. Currently even with instabookmarks, a low SP player trying to get his loot or ore / mins out in an indy stands almost ZERO chance against a high SP gank force with a frig tackler.
You criticize this guy for wanting it easy yet you've got access to it all. You can mine a BS in a day, it takes him a month, you can chain the .4% (bugged)750k BS while he chains the .01% sec cruisers, you can call in your 1000 player backup while he has only himself. And you accuse him of wanting it easy? You have all of this and you want to kill him in his probe to gank his 100 Mega.  And you want to be able to do this with ZERO risk and ZERO penalty. And your reason, cause thats the way it is.
While it is understandable that you would like to gank this player and pirate all his work (like you couldnt' mine in 1 hour what he mined in 20) as he jumps through your chokepoint in his indy, your doing so ensures that he won't be coming back (if he's smart) and may even leave the game. Which is detrimental to my gameplay and yours too.
I don't like that you try to pretend he has a chance when in reality he doesn't. He's a corpsicle just waiting to happen.
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.10.28 02:44:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lorth
Originally by: Nyxus
There are a LOT of people in Empire (young players) who want to go and fight and live in 0.0 but when you HAVE to go through one of like 10 chokepoints to get anywhere in the ENTIRE 0.0 galaxy, and EVERY one of those chokepoints is camped by either gankers or alliance gankers (get the hell out of our territory) what can you do? There is no middle ground for us to "grow up" in.
So you want, it to be easier to get into 0.0?
You also want it to be easier to get out of 0.0?
You also want it to be easier to survive in 0.0?
You also want it to be cheaper to be in 0.0?
You also want it to be possible with a week old char?
You also want more stations in 0.0?
You also want to be on par with the older players?
If I had read that post right, in short you want to travelle through 0.0 with no troubles, have no interuptions while you are there, make lots of isk, get out safely, do it with no isk invested, with harly any skill points!?!?!
Would you like a free battle ship and 1 bill isk cause that really what your asking for. Its a challange. Its what makes the game fun.
Thats exactly what he wants Lorth and rightly so. He wants to be able to get into 0.0 and get out of 0.0 having accomplished something useful and with his reward for the great risk. Currently even with instabookmarks, a low SP player trying to get his loot or ore / mins out in an indy stands almost ZERO chance against a high SP gank force with a frig tackler.
You criticize this guy for wanting it easy yet you've got access to it all. You can mine a BS in a day, it takes him a month, you can chain the .4% (bugged)750k BS while he chains the .01% sec cruisers, you can call in your 1000 player backup while he has only himself. And you accuse him of wanting it easy? You have all of this and you want to kill him in his probe to gank his 100 Mega. And you want to be able to do this with ZERO risk and ZERO penalty. And your reason, cause thats the way it is.
While it is understandable that you would like to gank this player and pirate all his work (like you couldnt' mine in 1 hour what he mined in 20) as he jumps through your chokepoint in his indy, your doing so ensures that he won't be coming back (if he's smart) and may even leave the game. Which is detrimental to my gameplay and yours too.
I don't like that you try to pretend he has a chance when in reality he doesn't. He's a corpsicle just waiting to happen.
Infinity Ziona
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